PS4 Neo (PS4.5)

Discussion in 'General Game Help & Discussion' started by dimmerwit, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    So after articles from Giant Bomb and Digital Foundry it's pretty clear now that an upgraded PS4 will be appearing on store shelves either later this year or early next.

    The DF article suggests a 2x boost in GPU performance, possibly featuring AMD's new Polaris architecture (more or less a newer version of what the PS4 and Xbox One use) by way of a doubling of the core count, an overclocked CPU and a slight increase in both usable RAM and memory speed.

    Whilst it's hard to exactly quantify this, we could expect a fairly significant increase in visual fidelity. Games that target 1080p30 could probably go for 1080p60, and for 4K users whilst the console doesn't really seem powerful enough for native 4K there's definitely the potential for higher than 1080p resolutions and upscaling.

    Sony also seem to be taking hard measures against splitting their base, and explicitly say that games or even features within games cannot be exclusive to the PS4 Neo. Features can seem to be improved, e.g. 4 player co-op on the base model and 8 player on the Neo, but if you're eyeing up a future PS4 game then you'll be able to play it on the launch console.

    So what do you think? Personally, I think it's an interesting strategy and one that I think would work provided Sony do indeed not split the userbase. I wouldn't be interested since as a PC gamer I only have a PS4 for exclusives and can't justify an upgrade, but I think there are a lot of people who would go for it since it means better visuals but the same PlayStation ecosystem. Some have dismissed it as a PC-lite sort of thing, but I think that dismisses the massive audience of people who like to play on consoles and have a group of friends who play on the same one, and as long as Sony do as suggested and not segregate Neo users from base users I think it could work. Also, the cynic in me says it's a response to the Nintendo NX and the possibility that it could be more powerful than the current PS4, which is what the rumours suggest, thereby keeping the PS4's position as the system of choice for resolution maniacs.

    Also, fantastic comment from the Digital Foundry article:

     
  2. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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  3. Spiner202

    Spiner202 Ex-Moderator Premium Member

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    I haven't really read too much about this, but is this different from how a lot of consoles get upgraded/better versions a few years into their lifecycles? Didn't that happen with both the 360 and the PS3? From what I could gather, people seem slightly more outraged about this.
     
  4. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    No, whilst the PS3 and 360 received hardware revisions the performance was always the same. This is a new PS4 that is explicitly designed for better performance. To be honest, I can't really think of a similar example from the past. The closest would be stuff like the N64's Expansion Pak, but this is more extensive than that as it improves all aspects of performance.
     
  5. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

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    It doesnt sound that bad, it sounds like Sony says developers must develop so it can run on the regular ps4 and then give it extra boost if running on the PS4neo or what ever its called, if this is the case it will be fine, now if things start to run like crap on the regular ps4, expect a shit storm.
     
  6. Fool's Requiem

    Fool's Requiem Is that a pro Genji?! Premium Member

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    As long as Sony stays true to launch consoles still being able to play newer games, I'm down with this.
     
  7. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    Wouldn't the onus be on the game developers to produce games that can be handled on the new hardware, not Sony? No different than something like upgrading your video card. System can handle it, but unless the game actually utilizes the graphics engine to its fullest, you'll get the same scaled back graphics.

    Personally, not worth it in my opinion. A lot of games are still being produced for old gen consoles as well as this gen. Now you're asking developers to make a third version in some cases to handle newer stuff. I don't see this as necessary on Sony's part. Just doing it for the sake of doing it. I don't even own a PS4 at this point. Probably won't until they are well under $200. There is absolutely nothing that makes me want/need a PS4 at this time.
     
  8. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    According to the documents the sites got all new games from October are required to have Neo compatibility. That includes features such as 1080p as a minimum render resolution (no 900p and upscaling).

    As for last gen, it's more or less dead now. Most of the big titles that weren't sports games are already either completely absent on last gen or have their feature set stripped down e.g. Black Ops III, and by next fall the list of new last gen games will mostly be those aimed at the Japanese market. Also, Microsoft just yesterday confirmed that the Xbox 360 has been discontinued.
     
  9. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    So the onus is on developers then? Doesn't this force a little of what I was saying though? Like games tailored around Neo software won't run on PS4 software? I mean, if the PS4 can handle Neo software, what's the point? If if can't, then developers are going to have to make two versions of PS games and then also Xbox and in some cases PC versions as well. Which usually means more money involved and more price associated with games. PS will suffer if they have to jack up game costs in the middle of a generation, no?

    I dunno. For new console buyers (like myself) sure, as long as it's the same price. But as an upgrade? I'm sensing this may be detrimental.

    I hope I'm wrong though.
     
  10. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    Well, it was more the fact that they were dropping PS3 and 360 support so there would only be two PlayStation SKUs. But there's also the fact that the differences between the PS4 and PS4 Neo are much smaller than the PS3. The Neo uses the exact same CPU just slightly overclocked, a faster version of the same type of RAM and a GPU which whilst possibly a couple of generations ahead in terms of architecture is evidently very similar to what is in the PS4 now, just with higher clocks and twice the core count, because current PS4 games can run on the Neo apparently without issue. Costs will probably increase a bit but I can't see it being anywhere near the hike that an entirely new generation would be.

    As for price I'd say they are probably targeting the same $399 price that the base PS4 launched at, which would be a fair reflection of the advance of technology in three years. Just a guess, though, as there's no information on that aspect.
     
  11. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    I get you. If I ever do get a PS4, I'll likely just stick with the non-Neo version.
     
  12. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

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    It makes sense to them, they've sold a ton of PS4s and saturated the market, time to introduce a new low-cost (to Sony) upgrade and sell it at launch price of $399. So many people clamor for that 1080p60 that they will sell a bunch.
     
  13. Gorge

    Gorge is robbing a gun store with a knife. Premium Member

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    As someone thats very lightly considering a ps4 (pretty much just for metal gear), im wondering if this would be worth it to me. I cant imagine the graphical and performance improvement would be that much better to warrant a boost to the price tag, personally.
     
  14. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

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    If its a huge price bump, I'll probably get the old ps4s, but if it replaces it and becomes the slim ps4 then I'll get the new one. I'm going to wait until I hear what the plan is. I really don't need one until September when FFXV comes out
     
  15. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    If I was the Emperor of Sony I agree with Eye that I would price it at $399 like the original PS4 launched at, and drop the current model to $299.

    Obviously it's impossible to recommend a model that doesn't exist yet, but going by the leaked spec list at this stage I think $100 would be a fair value upgrade and one I would probably go for if I was not yet a PS4 owner, assuming the developers actually use the additional power in a meaningful way beyond just a basic res/FPS upgrade.
     
  16. Gorge

    Gorge is robbing a gun store with a knife. Premium Member

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    That's what I'm hoping is that it'll just be the ps4 slim and they'll discontinue the old ps4. I'm worried they'll try to sell it for the full price of what the ps4 was new.
     
  17. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

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    It all depends, if it truly does have better specs, then I understand that.
     
  18. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    And then most places will give you a $100 credit when you trade your PS4 in, and then sell your system for$200 used.
     
  19. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

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  20. Gorge

    Gorge is robbing a gun store with a knife. Premium Member

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    But I dont remember the ps2 slim being sold for the price of a ps2 when it was new. Or the updated 360's with the better chips being sold at a higher price.
     
  21. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    But neither of those changes upgraded performance in any way. The GPU in the PS4 Neo has more than twice the performance as the current model.
     
  22. Gorge

    Gorge is robbing a gun store with a knife. Premium Member

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    I know that, but unless they sell it as a new new console I dont think consumers are going to be willing to pay full price. And selling it as a new console risks angering current ps4 owners who may feel their purchase hasnt got enough support or that they'll be missing out on something.
     
  23. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    I think you're seriously underestimating most gamers.
     
  24. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    Sony seem to be heavily emphasising in their guidelines to developers that the base PS4 will continue to be supported with no Neo-exclusive games or features, and I'm sure they will reiterate that publicly when the system is officially launched, so I don't think people will be that angered. OK, some people probably will be, but I don't think that argument makes much sense. It's not like the current PS4 is getting worse, and if there's a PS4 game in the future that people are looking forward to then they can still play it.

    I think from a business perspective it's a very smart move by Sony. It's a comparatively low cost upgrade that will increase margins, both % wise and in absolute terms by effectively raising the price of their flagship product back to $399 (assuming they do this). People upgrading their PCs after three years is not uncommon, yet alone other devices like phones, so I think there's a market.
     
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  25. Gorge

    Gorge is robbing a gun store with a knife. Premium Member

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    People here dont seem to be willing to pay full price for a ps4.5 and i'd hardly say we're a unique demographic in terms of video game players.
     
  26. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    Unique, no. But we are far from an example of unanimity. There are a lot more gamers out there than just the dozen or so of us here, and just because most of us aren't willing to get it, there are plenty of people that will, and more than enough to make this successful. If you take the pure Sony users, this means anyone who is brand loyal to Sony and not someone who owns both XBox and Sony, and not those loyal to only XBox, most of them will purchase this system. Xbox loyalist won't touch it. And those that own both, even if a few purchase it, they've made it worthwhile.
     
  27. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    Besides, we do have our reasons. I am a mostly PC gamer who doesn't really need another PS4, Eye is going to be hella busy with two kids and Jon doesn't even have the original one.
     
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  28. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    For the green team, sources are suggesting that there will be a cheaper, smaller version of the Xbox One this fall and a more powerful model (similar to the PS4 Neo) in 2017, according to Kotaku.
     
  29. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    Of course there will be...

    *Starts singing* Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you!
     
  30. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    Well, if the leaked TFLOPS numbers are to be believed, the new Xbox would be about 20-25% more powerful than the PS4 Neo.

    PS4 v X1 round two...fight!