Final Fantasy XV: the thread

Discussion in 'General Game Help & Discussion' started by Quagmire, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Posts:
    24,989

    -Return to Top-

    If anything, it shows how far behind Japanese developers are in some pretty standard categories that other developers handle well. It took Square until 2016 to make a functional open world RPG and it is devoid of so much that could have been there if they knew what they were doing. Its like they tried to emulate other developers but were too isolated in their own process that they couldn't do it. And it took forever to make just enough of a game to release.

    It's like they got hung up on things like pretty food for camps, fishing, photo books, car customizing and forgot that there was supposed to be a story*

    *I'm only in chapter 3, I can't really judge.
     
  2. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Posts:
    16,291

    -Return to Top-

    I'm in Chapter 8 and I see the same thing. Though I think the story itself isn't as bad as this "brotherhood" thing. I think that takes away from the story. Take that out and think that this is a story about two warring cities, where one used the guise of a peace treaty to invade the other, murder the king, steal their most precious item and send the prince, soon-to-be king on a mission to get everything back and set things right. That's a good story... The weak brotherhood storyline takes away from that, rather than add to it like they intended.
     
  3. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Posts:
    24,989

    -Return to Top-

    The story is what will keep drawing me back in - I haven't touched it since Sunday morning and don't intend to tonight. I'd rather continue reading - at least there is a driving story there :D

    I mean, I could go to Lestallum to continue the story but nothing is really urgently saying I should...
     
  4. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Posts:
    12,843

    -Return to Top-



    Chapter 1, Level 99. Who needs the story anyway?
     
  5. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Posts:
    24,989

    -Return to Top-

    I crashed the Regalia last night and it was awesome. Driving around in a broken car is nice.

    Also, Lestallum is a cool town. Not much to do but its pretty and actually a town. Haven't had one of those in a FF in over a decade. :D
     
  6. Rachel

    Rachel Dragonfly Catcher

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Posts:
    12,384

    -Return to Top-

    Holy fuck I hate Altissia!!!!

    AHHHHHHHHH

    It is SO confusing to walk around in, there are stairs and gondolas on different levels that don't all connect to one another, the map doesn't help

    Like Luna's wedding dress, literally a hundred feet behind it is the place I am trying to reach, the bar, but I can't from there. I have to take several gondolas

    Did the devs not walk around in their own city?!??

    Jesus I am SO frustrated right now

    PS did everyone see Conan's bit with this game

    Because it was 100% spot on with the wedding dress, the dudes care a little too much about seeing it and it's SUPER weird
     
  7. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    You were not kidding, holy fuck, I can easily lose a 2000 line to one of these, multiple times I've lost them near almost having the, gotta reload, fuck, one would have cost me the $3000 lure...Christ all mighty
     
  8. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Posts:
    16,291

    -Return to Top-

    After stopping for a while and working three days on chapter 8 a ton of sidequests to level the party a bit, I finally started chapter 9 and went to Altissia myself last night. The place is HUGE. I can't help but have been in awe on the boat ride in. It was GORGEOUS. However, that said, I agree that it's confusing as hell. It took me a good while to discover how the gondolas work, and maybe it's because I'm only in the one section of Altissia (if there are more), but it seems to me that all the gondolas connected in yellow are interchangeable. The stop in the upper left (the hotel) has another gondola above which brings you to the arena. The arena has one that actually brings you to Totomostro. Once I got used to it, I actually enjoyed it. Mostly because loading times are decreased because the entirety of Altissia loads as one (thank GOD!), unlike Leide, Duscae and Cleigne which take forever to load between them (ever try fast travelling from Lestallum to Hammerhead? It may be faster to just set it to auto and let it go...).

    I didn't see the Conan bit you're referring to. Or, at least I am unsure what you're referring to.

    And I completely agree about the dress. All I could think of watching it was "Hey that's a pretty dress. Alright, let's move on... *5 minutes later they are still talking about it and I can't fast forward the conversation* Well... this is awkward..."

    And finally, speaking of Totomostro... I think I have a gambling problem. I actually really enjoy the risk taking. I went from 1000 medals, to 4800, to 800, to 9000, to 25000 in a matter of minutes (thank you imps!). Although, I couldn't help but feeling a bit like Michael Vick....

    Yeah, I've all but shelved fishing until post game. I'm on Navyth's last quest, and I ran into Gladio's Lord of the Lake (or something similar) tour quest. Both are all but impossible without the best fishing gear available and level 10 (which is a complete grind). Hence I'm playing Totomostro right now, for the best reel in the game. I have to do research for the best rod, but I may already have the best for now (I have the Dark Soul or something like that). My fishing is only level 5 or 6.

    In fact, I have to say, all the "skills" really suck in this game. I've leveled Photography to 10 (because it's simple and does so itself; and I rested at camps a ton early in the game). Cooking is around 7, and is probably the best of all the skills. Survival is just pathetic and seldom levels; gives crap rewards anyway. I think mine is at 5 if I'm lucky. And fishing? Well, it's "fun."
     
  9. Rachel

    Rachel Dragonfly Catcher

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Posts:
    12,384

    -Return to Top-

    okay. I finished the main game this weekend. I'm going to sit down and type a lot about my thoughts on this (though I think I'm the first person to finish the game in this thread?) and it's going to be super long and ranty. Spoiler alert: the game that was in development hell for ten years is not that good plot-wise. And remember, I am a die-hard FF fan.

    In summary, without spoiling anything, the exact thing that I was afraid was going to happen, happened. And the game suffers from what I like to call "FFXIII syndrome."

    *I am going to spoil the hell out of the game so don't click if you don't want to be taken straight to the ending*

    so let's rewind a little bit. I'm on Chapter 8 forever, I'm realizing that Duscae is The Hinterlands. I'm in sidequest hell. They start to be not very interesting to me. I need the bite of the main story again. Although they listened to fans with towns/cities, NPCs, and sidequests, the game is too top heavy. It's like if FFX gave you access to the Calm Lands and the airship within the first two hours. What they should have done is sprinkle in plenty of sidequests but then taper them off so we could move on. I think people are scared that if they move on with the plot, the sidequests will end or they will miss out, something we have been trained to fear.

    At this point I'm putting my hopes on Altissia. I heard it was THE city and besides, that is where I supposedly would finally meet up with Luna. But it didn't live up to my expectations...one, see my post above. Two, I thought the arena would be ME fighting, instead you place bets on monsters. Three, I think there are actually less vendors than Lestallum.

    And four, Luna. Oh boy let's talk about Luna. So what did I mean by FFXIII syndrome. Well, in that game there were a number of side characters with a lot of potential...but it never materialized, they showed up for a few scenes (oftentimes just enough to fit them into a trailer) and then they usually died. So yes, when you finally reach Luna, SHE DIES. And you know what? I felt NOTHING for that. I didn't get enough time to connect to her, to miss her. That was supposed to be a pivotal moment but it totally fell flat. Your interaction with her amounts to the book you write back and forth in that the dog delivers (which some speculate he is actually Fenrir by the way).

    The same thing happens with Ravus and the Emperor. The Emperor in particular...I had heard that he only shows up in ONE cutscene, the one at the beginning (I think end of chapter 2?) and when I heard that I couldn't believe it. How could that be? Noctis needed to confront him! He started the invasion and caused the death of the king! But it's totally true, when you find him again he's literally a pile of clothes because he turned into a daemon (Rick had to explain this part to me because at first I didn't make the connection). That's IT!

    It is SO obvious entire chunks of the story are missing. I thought it would get better but it only got worse. And I don't mean in a haha-DLC-will-add-supplemental-plot chunks are missing kind of way. I mean plot-wise this is unfinished. It's obvious they had to cut entire plot points and whole AREAS out to meet the deadline. Although their investors would disagree, I honestly would have been okay waiting one more year to get the plot right. It's that important to me, I play FFs for the plot.

    You HAVE to watch the movie and the anime to understand what is happening. They barely touch on the invasion. I don't like this "extended/enhanced media plot/universe thing" they've been doing ever since FFXIII. The plot should all be in the game to at least understand what is happening, I don't mind supplemental material as LONG AS IT IS JUST THAT! I also assume the bros will get their DLC to flesh them out more. For example, there is a point where Gladiolus leaves your party for a bit. He comes back with huge scars and there is NO explanation ever. So, I just chalked it up to a DLC plot hole and moved on.

    The only decent non-playable is the big bad, Ardyn. I can tell his VA had a lot of fun playing with him. He is probably one of the better villains the series has had in awhile, perhaps since...hmm, Kuja maybe. He's like if Seph and Kefka had a baby.

    So yeah, back to Altissia. Everything goes to hell, including Ignis LOSING HIS SIGHT. He goes BLIND! For the rest of the game, Ignis is BLIND. At first I didn't understand what this meant. Gameplay-wise he is your driver, your cook, and he fights in battle. So guess what? All those skills you spent all your time learning, they literally don't matter for the rest of the game until post-game. You will NEVER fish again, Ignis will only cook for you once again.

    And in chapter ten (I think) there is a section where you have to retrieve another ancestor weapon. YOU TAKE IGNIS WITH YOU! Instead of having him wait at the train station, he walks along, blind, and you can't sprint, you have to constantly wait for him. And you are in a SWAMP! Obviously if this was realistic Noctis would insist that, for his safety, he would not tag along.

    Ironically the longest chapter is the one everyone complains about, chapter 13. And yeah, it's bad. Plot-wise I understand why they created it, they needed to have a chapter where Noctis doesn't rely on his friends, he must survive on his own. I get that but it just wasn't very fun. It was also around this time that I could see they were aiming for 15 chapters to fit the theme. That's why a couple of chapters are only one boss battle, I think they wanted to reach that number.

    It was around this point that I asked Rick, what would have to happen for there to be a "good ending?" Or at least a satisfactory ending. Luna was dead, the kingdom is in ruins. There is nothing for Noctis to come home to, his people have all left.

    So anyway, you eventually find the crystal again. You piece together that the empire has been using it to experiment and turn people into daemons (I guess). This plot point kinda came out of left field for me. It was just sloppily executed. I also found out that Prompto is the son of the lead magitech engineer for the empire but it's NEVER mentioned in the game, I read about it online through more supplemental material that a different person found.

    Then Noctis is absorbed in the crystal (for some reason) and the game flashes forward ten years (for some reason). He wakes up on a prison island (for some reason) and decides to find his friends again. From this point on, the game is literally the last disc of FFVIII. You can't go anywhere except to Hammerhead. The world is shrouded in darkness with no sunlight and daemons roam everywhere. I have no idea how people get food because crops need sunlight and animals need plants. But anyway.

    So you go to Hammerhead and you meet your bros ten-years older. This is where the beginning of the game makes sense where they looked visibly older. So you'd think okay cool I will be able to see how time has affected Cid and Cindy. But nope, Cindy stays in her locked garage the whole time despite Noctis FINALLY returning. Cid is in Lestallum. They clearly did not want to make a new model for either of them.

    Flash forward to the end. You finally meet Ifrit, I was wondering when that was supposed to happen. Spoiler alert: Ifrit is human-like and fine as HELL. Goddamn if I wasn't pregnant already Ifrit might have done the job

    But let's talk about the summons for a second. You get the usual six, Titan, Ramuh, Leviathan (the only one that is not human-like for some reason), Shiva, Bahamut, and Ifrit. You cannot get Ifrit or Bahamut to summon at all. They show up for the story. It's obvious this was cut. And it just sucks.

    So anyway, you beat Ardyn and you find out Noctis has to die to truly finish him off. Apparently both Regis and Luna (the Oracle) knew this but did not share this knowledge with Noctis. Which is another thing...I wish her being an Oracle had been more fleshed out, it's not clear to me how one becomes an Oracle, if there are others, what exactly that entails. So you die and finish him off, for some reason your bros are with you so I'm not sure if that means they also died? And then at the very end you are sitting on the throne with Luna in her wedding dress? Are they in the afterlife or an alternative reality? And it's never shown what happens to the kingdom (with no king, as Noctis had no heir). To me the ending is very confusing and not in a "you interpret this and decide what this means" kind of way, it feels rushed and not satisfactory.

    At least with him dying I know they won't try to make a sequel...right?

    I'm pissed off at the reviews, they are brushing off too many things, saying it's a contender to Witcher 3 or whatever. Bitch this game is nothing like Witcher 3. Witcher 3 had way more content, the plot made sense, the sidequests never felt like a chore. If I could summarize my thoughts (in case you are wondering if I enjoyed this game by now) I think that the gameplay saved it somewhat and the fact that FF fans have been craving for something halfway decent for awhile. And I think it is just that, halfway decent.

    So, my advice as someone into the post-game stuff...finish the game y'all. It will all be there in the post-game. Don't do stuff in chapter 8 forever. There's even items you get along the way that will make the sidequests easier.

    Oh yeah, and I finally upgraded my car to be the airship model. And...it kind of sucks. Like I don't see myself using it because if you crash the car it's an automatic game over. Maybe I will get better with this over time.

    Well not really. The loading times are disguised in the gondola ride.



    My advice, do NOT attempt the fishing stuff until you've leveled up that skill and you have the best reel/rod. It's just too frustrating otherwise. And I will probably need to follow a guide, I can't keep track of what shows up where (and when).
     
  10. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Posts:
    16,291

    -Return to Top-

    With all due respect, I am going to hold off reading your review until I finish. :) I'm still in chapter 9. But....

    I may stop delaying so long on side quests and get a move on the main story then. I did hang up on 8 for an entire weekend (about 6 or 7 hours over 3 days). I spent almost 2 hours last night just playing Totomostro. Which I would be happier about if it let you bid over 9999 on a match, because winning 30-40k medals takes a LONG time to get the millions you need. I did buy the lance, fishing reel, the EXP food, turbocharger, and a couerl whisker (because I couldn't remember getting one for a potential weapon upgrade). I may have gotten something else, but I can't remember now... I may aim for the decal that's there because it's really cool looking, and I'm at 240k medals at the moment. I would like the magitek engine, but that's a grind and a half... And defeated with the car upgrade.

    I've heard some horror stories about that. They have to patch that... Seems really silly. Have you noticed a difference with loading and transition times in the type-f though? Does it still go into a long loading screen when you go from say Leide to Duscae?

    Yes, but you can skip the rides, and it takes seconds, not minutes, which is what I meant.

    That was my thought, too. I got the Llymlaen (spelling?) reel last night, and I have the Dark Souls rod from a store. I think the best rod comes from Navyth, and I couldn't do his quest without the reel. So I put it off.

    Guess I should stop holding back completing the main quests, huh? I don't know if it's average, but I'm level 52/53 on all my characters halfway through chapter 9.
     
  11. Rachel

    Rachel Dragonfly Catcher

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Posts:
    12,384

    -Return to Top-

    this is a really, really good video that explains my thoughts perfectly. In summary, payoff without setup and telling NOT showing.

    It contains huge spoilers (including the ending) so only click once you've finished the game.



    Some other thoughts since yesterday...

    Potential, potential, potential. That's what I feel like this game is. The parts are there but they never fit together. And it's just sad.

    I feel bad for new fans because this is NOT the example you'd hope they are flocking towards. They are going to see this and FFXIII as Final Fantasy examples and that's terrible IMO. Really, for me the test is the next game. The one that's not stuck in development hell. It is probably the next game I will decide if I want to continue buying this day one, if I am still a fan of the series. Not sure if I'm counting the new FFVII remake in that game. Probably not.

    Another thing I recalled since yesterday is the summon pantheon (or whatever they are called). They actually have a really interesting story by themselves. Apparently Ifrit betrayed the other five thousands of years ago and helped start off this chain of events. But that's never mentioned in the game. One facet that could have been interesting but was left to the mixed media.

    I'm VERY worried about this DLC and mixed media trend of pushing out updates after the fact. But they totally can get away with it. They know this. We let them get away with it.

    I'm also worried about how they clearly padded the game with filler. Minutes in the car adding nothing to the game. It takes forever to reach the mark with nothingness in between, OR your way is not straightforward, it is blocked by dense trees or cliffs. Recall Witcher 3, that game had a TON of trees but I never felt encumbered by them. Sometimes it takes you forever to find the steps from the road fencing.

    And yes, I would say if you're level 50 it's time to go to the post game.
     
  12. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    All I can say is fuck chapter 13
    the chapter where its just noct and you're trying to find prompto
     
  13. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Posts:
    16,291

    -Return to Top-

    Good to know. I am looking forward to seeing all your stuff. I started at the end of chapter 9, right before the conversation with Camelia. Was trying to decide if I wanted to play Totomostro until I got the gas addon for my car. But I decided to follow your advice ad continue the story. Man it flies by. I know there's 14 chapters. I went from the end of chapter 9, and within a couple hours, started chapter 12. If I get a couple hours tonight, I'm almost certain I'll finish the main game.

    Something I noticed in chapters 10 and 11, though...

    The story is really starting to weaken, badly at this point. It's been pretty good until now. Luna was never really developed as a character and now she's dead? If she was developed, that would have been not only the most heart-wrenching scene in the game to this point, but SUCH a great turn with Ardyn... Now, you feel almost nothing for Luna, she dies off camera (which I DESPISE in movies in games) and Ardyn "turns" heel without nary an inkling (which I expected, but not as so suddenly and without warning; he goes from playing the tweener role so well that you don't know his motives, and then he just kills Luna...). He actions lead me to believe he's been corrupted by some yet unknown force, but sad right now.

    Then to top it off, it's a time where it's understandable that Noctis would have been depressed and distraught. His fiancee was just killed, his friend was blinded, his father and city are gone... I makes sense he'd been a little disenfranchised, and Gladio was awful. Not just the character, but the delivery. More people would sympathize with Noctis' behavior than Gladio's. I don't get that. Then the makeup was faster than Batman vs. Superman? I don't buy it...
     
  14. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    Theres only 14 chapters??!! That makes this game feel really short for a FF game, no wonder chapter 13 is dragging on so long, though I'm reading 15, not 14, unless 15th is just the epilogue and stuff

    I agree with your spoiler, though not to the extent you feel
     
  15. Rachel

    Rachel Dragonfly Catcher

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Posts:
    12,384

    -Return to Top-

    there's 15 chapters, they did it to match the numerical theme

    Don't get the gas addon for the car from the arena. There's a different addon in Duscae that makes it very difficult to run out of fuel. It's in a shop somewhere. You do run out but it takes forever. Also, the airship doesn't require gas. It's not worth 300,000 to never run out of fuel and you don't get a trophy/achievement from it.

    In response to your spoiler...

    I agree with the first part, that's what my long spoiler post previously was about. For the second part, I agree somewhat although I can see what they were TRYING to do there. One explanation is that Gladiolus knows Noctis needs to press forward no matter if he is feeling bad about everything or not. He doesn't have a choice and so Gladiolus needed to play "the bad guy" in that situation and get him determined again.

    The makeup part I thought was maybe because I'm not a guy? Like at the time I thought maybe guys get over stuff faster especially when there is a crisis? I dunno

    "The story is really starting to weaken, badly at this point."

    It's going to get worse

    "It's been pretty good until now."

    Not really lol

    Some of me half-wishes Ardyn had turned out to be a good guy somehow. He obviously wasn't but what a twist that would have been
     
  16. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Posts:
    16,291

    -Return to Top-

    Apologies on the chapter thing. I thought it was 14.

    I have the other gas addon you're referencing, so I won't waste time then. It's actually like 3 MILLION medals, not 300,000, that'd be easy. I knew the airship doesn't use fuel, so I was hesitant. I'm glad I skipped it then.

    I got that aspect too, about needing to push him on. My qualm wasn't that he was pushing Noct, it's that Noct never once said he was giving up, or questioning his duty. He was depressed. He hadn't seen his fiancee in 12 years, and she was murdered while he was helpless, right near him. Give him a moment to absorb it before you start screaming at him. That was my issue, the delivery and timing was awful. And made no sense. So, I agree with you.

    *EDIT* And also, like I mentioned, off screen deaths are bad enough. But off screen deaths of a supposedly major character who have had little development? That's brutal for a fan/player...

    The makeup, I guess some guys do. I'm not like that, so I can't speak for all guys, though I can't imagine that I'd be so forgiving to a friend that just witnessed all I went through and, for lack of a better phrase, insulted me when I was doing nothing wrong, and told me to quit whining about it. If I lose my fiancee, city, father, have a friend go blind, and watch people sacrificing themselves for me, I'd need time to process it all as I'm going, too. If you tell me to suck it up and press on, and berate me, I'm not going to just brush it off when someone says, "Hey, knock it off." I mean, the following quest leading to the Malboro fight, since I took Ignis along, Gladio spent the entire time saying mocking things like, "Can the royal escorts stay together?," "So much for sticking together...," and the like. I was actually sick of it and wanted to punch him at one point. It's all relative, but it felt like BvS... "You're mom is named Martha, too!? BESTIES!"

    As for the story, honestly, I thought it was decent (read: average) right up until Altissia. Once Leviathan came involved and all this started happening, the story fell off a cliff. I don't mind let downs. I don't mind gradually sinking stories. I wouldn't be bothered if the whole thing was terrible. But it wasn't. On a scale of 1-10, the story was a 5 going in, and within a chapter went to a -10. If it gets worse, I'm actually scared.

    *EDIT2* Speaking of Leviathan, I'm pretty angry at the handling of Astrals in this game. There are supposed to be 6 of these ancients. They aren't controllable summons. They appear when they want to. We only get 4 in the game that I'm aware of. Titan, Ramuh, Leviathan and Shiva (whom I have not gotten yet). There's also Ifrit and Bahamut, the latter is killed by the empire when they invade Lucis. So, the coolest of the beings isn't even in the game. At one point, after Leviathan, it's said that "the empire has already killed half of the 6." Since we control 3 at the time (Titan, Ramuh and Leviathan, of who we actually kill ourselves...) we're to assume Bahamut is gone, and potentially Ifrit as well, since he's not even referenced. Then what, Shiva is theoretically dead? I dunno, I'm confused with the astrals, and how they were handled. I was hoping for really epic summons after seeing in the development process the Ramuh and Leviathan models. Instead, we're given inconsistent summons, that only appear when you're dying, in a certain area, and outside a hidden cooldown... And we only get 4? Summons were always my favorite part of FF... SO angry...
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  17. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    Where is this arena? I don't feel like I ever ran across it and I'm passed the point of no return...
     
  18. Rachel

    Rachel Dragonfly Catcher

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Posts:
    12,384

    -Return to Top-

    it's in Altissia from the purple line gondola
     
  19. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    Ah, I remember seeing that, never went there as I figured I'd have more time eventually or would he story bases, guess not...
     
  20. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-


    So I just finished the game
    This video sums up how I feel too, and I agree with you too. There is a great game hidden in here, I enjoyed it, its not bad, but it didn't live up to its potential. It feels like there is a lot of story missing, like important pieces of the story and characters are missing. The story also got needlessly complex at times and I never really understood the actual bad guy
     
  21. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Posts:
    24,989

    -Return to Top-

    I'm still on chapter 3 and you guys are making me not want to continue playing...
     
  22. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    It's worth playing, its about a B for me overall. It does a lot right, but just some poor execution, it feels like stuff was rushed, but for Christ sakes they had over a decade
     
  23. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Posts:
    24,989

    -Return to Top-

    It doesn't draw me back in like other RPGs. I've had zero desire to even play it since last weekend. I just got the Royal Arms thing in chapter 3 and just saved it and haven't gone back. I have the next week and a half off from work starting today so I'll jump back in at some point.
     
  24. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Posts:
    16,291

    -Return to Top-

    Well, I completed the main story last night. I do want to address this first, though:

    Don't let that deter you from completing the game and forming your own opinion. A game is meant to connect emotionally to people in different ways. Some things we are saying here, may not be true of you. I was hesitant from what I was hearing, too. Partly why I held up on chapter 8 as long as I did.

    Now, my thoughts. Heavy spoilers, obviously:

    Rachel, your thoughts and that video, mirror almost exactly what I feel. I've said as much in pieces as I've played. In particular, I feel the story is relatively good, but executed in such a way that is SO bad, that it detracts. The concept was so bad. It would be repetitive for me to say everything I'm feeling, because you've all expressed the same.

    The issue is I was confused by a LOT of what was happening. Since I only saw Brotherhood and nothing else, the video help fill some of those gaps for me. But the overall confusion was immense. Ravus, the emperor, Ardyn's turn... so much was just left unanswered. Like when I heard Gladio yell something about how they were fighting the emperor and he was a daemon... I said to myself, "wait, what!?" Ravus being a good guy all along made no sense, but we're supposed to feel bad for him. Luna's death I covered. I think the consensus is accurate. I think that the story was cut and stripped to meet deadlines (hence that last delay from September to November; they clearly had to make last minute story cuts, and were deciding which they could afford to cut). I do not believe there will be DLC to help it, either, and here's why...

    The season pass you can get specifically mentioned there are 4 DLCs. One for Gladio, one for Ignis, one for Prompto and one general one. The season pass is $25, not $40 like most season passes. Which means the content within is not major content, merely filler and side stuff.

    On top of that, after playing through the game and seeing the 10 year flash forward, I'm willing to bet dollars to pesos that the character DLCs will NOT be backstory content at all. Instead, I bet it is going to be more "Here's what those characters were doing in the 10 years Noctis was away." It's further supported by Talcott on the drive to Hammerhead. He talks about how each of them went his own way and did his own thing in that time. Only seldom did they see each other in 10 years. That's going to be a major fail when the story has as many holes as it does. People aren't going to give a shit about what the three friends were doing. They want to know about Luna, Ravus, Cor, Iris, the emperor, etc... We had enough time with the Crowsguard. It's unlikely that last bit of DLC is going to cover all of that.

    *EDIT* This also further supports my feelings I've mentioned that these three would have nothing to do with each other if it weren't for Noct. Which further makes me question the idea this was supposed to be a story about brothers. They were not. And even their stories were haphazard.

    As for a couple other aspects...

    I've mentioned how I hated the ancients in this game. I got to summon Titan once in my playthrough, when a scripted event of empire baddies stopped me on the highway. They were several levels higher than I was and they were just destroying my party. I got the opportunity to summon Titan and he obliterated them with a rock. Ramuh was only summoned once, during a scripted event at the garrison and never again. Leviathan I was able to summon once when I got to the crown city and those two Naga things attacked me. She did almost no damage to them. I got Shiva and Bahamut once also, both in scripted events against Ifrit. Who, as Rachel said, turned against the other 5. And I had NO idea why until I read Rachel's comment. That was an awful system. And I'm STILL angry about it. Not to mention, I still don't understand why we had to "kill" Leviathan to get her power. I know why we had to fight her and Titan, as tests, but we killed Leviathan, but, oh wait, she's okay and supports you now. Ramuh just said, hey, touch my crystals and I'm yours. Did anyone else know Gentiana was Shiva? That was supposed to be a twist... it wasn't for me. The fact these summons are so few and have a hidden cooldown is pathetic.

    To the Witcher 3 comparison... PLEASE... not even close. The side quests in 15 are pedantic and annoying. I especially like Rachel's comments about the foliage. In Witcher 3 it was never obtrusive. In 15 it was incredibly so. It's almost as if the developers wanted to make sure you couldn't have a direct line to objectives and force you miles around just to look at their work. There's one area of Cleigne in particular near the garrison in the south that was just annoying as fuck. It forces you miles out of the way to go to the back of the garrison where the objectives are. We've covered how none of us like how difficult it is to find quest objectives...

    To the combat. It's not great. It's better than 12 and 13, but not by much. I felt it was another missed opportunity. I like that it's more like KH. But it was still nothing more than button mashing. You have the ability to change weapons on the fly, but it's not worth it. AT ALL. Attacking an enemy with a weapon they are not weak to is like bashing your head into a wall. Instead, find what it's weak to, change to that weapon and hold attack until dead. Occasionally, you may have to press block. That's it. That's combat in this game. It's bad. With magic being a pain to use and summons just terrible... and no way to customize or change weapons (like in 7 or 8), it's just boring. I'm, personally, not sure why people are saying combat is refreshing...

    Finally, chapter 15... Actually it's kind of prior than that. In Altissia. Time travel. Really? Was that necessary? So, a dog can bring you back in time 10 years, keeping all your levels and gear. I don't understand the point. At all.... I actually prefer the way 10 had a "point of no return." Game literally tells you, YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE ONCE YOU MOVE FORWARD. Here's your time to finish all the quests and come back later. Do I appreciate getting to see the end of the game before setting off of hours of side quests? Sure. But After the let down of the story... I don't know how much time I want to dedicate to the side quests. What is the point? I've already killed Ardyn and was killed on the throne. Now I got to resurrect just prior and go back in time 10 years to get all the stuff I want... for what purpose? To return to the future and kill Ardyn again? Or maybe hit a NG+ and and be so OP that I tear through the poorly executed story a second time? I don't get the point...

    About "legendary" weapons, and I don't know if they are really called that... but I was annoyed that after a 10 year absence, Gladio, Ignis and Prompto randomly appear again with the best weapons in the game. No challenges? Are we going to see their quests to get them in their individual DLCs? I mean, how'd they come upon these powerhouse weapons? And are their weapons more powerful for them?

    *EDIT 2* Let's also mention that it's almost better to strip them of their hard earned weapons and give them to Noct because they are all unconscious during the battle with Ardyn. So, yeah, hey you guys much have worked real hard for all those cool weapons, but I'm going ot just take them from you.

    *EDIT 3* Speaking of the fight with Ardyn. What a let down...... I got him to about 10% after a good 15 minutes of fighting and then he did some funky stab thing (when I had half a life bar) that killed me. I had to reload from before the battle and I was pissed. However, after learning from the first time, I went into the fight with a new strategy of just "attack with only sword of the father and arial combos" until phase 2, then use homing missiles while staying away from him and an occasional elixir. He was dead in 5 minutes... really sad.

    Finally, a question about the "bodies" hanging in the throne room. I understand they are supposed to be meaningful. Pretty sure I saw Luna hanging there and Regis. I thought maybe one was Cor. But who was the fourth?

    I'm sure more will come to mind, but this was my overall thoughts. Disappointed. And unlike you, Rachel, I'm certainly holding the Remake to account. I don't know if they are planning another numbered titled. 7 was a game that had it all. If they screw up the remake, there is no way they will recover. They need to have all the elements of that story present. Without which, there is major issues at SE. This was supposed to be a polished story, 10 years in the making. Instead, I didn't see any of it. 7, on the other hand, is already done for them, story-wise. There is NO excuse to fudge up the story. If they do, I have no faith they will ever be able to recapture their magic.

    Huh... ten years in the making... Noct wakes up ten years later... I wonder if that was symbolic?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  25. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    I agree with pretty much all you said, summons are terrible, though I like the battle system. The final fight, I just used all my consumables, stuff like regenerate hp, auto reflex and no use mp because I knew it was the final or second to last fight.

    What control setup did you use @Jon
     
  26. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Posts:
    16,291

    -Return to Top-

    Honestly, I did that the first time, before I died. The second time, I only used a few Elixirs on phase 2 because of the weird glitch that killed me the first time. Otherwise, I didn't even need them. Made it disappointing. Honestly, I decided to go to Formouth (or whatever) Garrison last night for the last piece for the Type-F, and I used a TON of consumables on the two mechs in that fight. About 10x more than I did in the last fight... Goes to show the scaling difference...

    I ended up staying with setup 1. I liked the way 2 was (3 also), but the few times I did that, muscle memory kept making me hit wrong buttons and I said I'd rather stick to 1. I may try 2 again now post game. But I'd rather they patch custom controls into the game...
     
  27. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    2 is so much better, you'll over come muscle memory, I thankfully did it when I started
     
  28. Quagmire

    Quagmire UofL Cardinals, NY Yankees, NY Giants Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Posts:
    13,224

    -Return to Top-

    I didn't realize I could use that fucking dog to warp back to past locations, I thought once I got on that boat I couldn't return, really would have made the rest of the game more fun had I known this, not sure how I missed it
     
  29. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Posts:
    16,291

    -Return to Top-

    It's only advertised in a quick popup once you arrive in Altissia and get to the hotel. If you don't carefully read popups, you'd easily miss it.
     
  30. Rachel

    Rachel Dragonfly Catcher

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Posts:
    12,384

    -Return to Top-

    back from the holiday...

    Rick and I both got pretty far into the post-game (no spoilers). There is one dungeon I am dreading (because I watched him deal with it). It's Castlemark. There's a ton of bombs and switches and basically it just doesn't look very fun.

    Two other annoying things with the dungeons:

    - Usually at the very end of the dungeon you need to fight a boss monster. Right? So you do that and then later on when you go to a tipster, the SAME monster is now available as a hunt. So you have to go all the way down to the end of the dungeon to beat the same monster. It's lazy padding and SO blatant
    - Rick unlocked the seals. He tried the very first dungeon's content after the seal and omg you guys. It's so bad. It was a long hallway of dirt tunnel, nothing interesting to look at, no texture variety, with a few short divergences. No map to help you. It's obvious they rushed this. Not sure all dungeons after the seal are like this, though, so we'll see.

    He also attempted the Liege of the Lake again. After awhile I looked up the info for it. Do NOT try it unless you have the best reel and rod.

    Now to reply to a couple of things...

    You need to finish so we can talk freely in here! :tease:

    But really though, who has ever heard of an actual story patch? Bug fixes sure, minor UI and graphical improvements sure, but I have NEVER heard of an unfinished story being patched before. And the thing is, it pains me how short sighted this is. They wanted to push the game out in time for the holiday but in so doing, I'm betting they have totally alienated the new gen of players, the people that DON'T have that nostalgia when you pull up the car soundtrack. That's not a great long term strategy.

    It really doesn't and I've been trying to pinpoint why. Take the quest NPCs for example. The magazine photo quest is the EASIEST quest line in the game and yet I dread doing them. It's sooo tedious. And they assign too many quests to a handful of NPCs.

    Another example is the frog lady. My god. First of all, lol at telling the FUCKING PRINCE/KING to go catch frogs in a swamp. I mean all the NPCs are guilty of this but she's pretty egregious. Secondly, her final request is just beyond ridiculous. It's not something ANYONE would attempt doing without a guide. You have to find five frogs and the only hint you get is that they are...somewhere...on the shoreline of bodies of water. In a game with like a dozen fishing spots alone. In this day and age no one is going to do that without looking it up.

    The video that I posted earlier has a good sister video. It focuses on the gameplay (no spoilers). Not everything I agree with but it does highlight the basic problem of the combat...you can really switch your brain off which might be some of the reason why you have trouble getting back into the game. And there's also the complaint about the summons, if the fight is too hard they basically can come in and wipe the slate clean.



    They also have a good video about the story (similar to the one I posted earlier). It's through the first half hour. Spoilers etc



    I am not even sure I want to get ANY of the story DLCs at this point. Or even care about the story patch. I just don't know how you can fix this with patches and DLC. It's unfinished with whole areas missing. I think back to the demos and teaser gameplay at shows such as E3. I remember Noctis battling through a hallway. The Crown City was created. The childhood demo had SO much texture detail that wasn't in the final game.

    "Finally, a question about the "bodies" hanging in the throne room. I understand they are supposed to be meaningful. Pretty sure I saw Luna hanging there and Regis. I thought maybe one was Cor. But who was the fourth?"

    I'm not sure Cor was there. I think one of them was supposed to be Nyx (from the movie). I couldn't get a good glimpse of them.

    "And unlike you, Rachel, I'm certainly holding the Remake to account. I don't know if they are planning another numbered titled. 7 was a game that had it all. If they screw up the remake, there is no way they will recover."

    And see, here is why I'm not. It's because I want to see what they can do with a totally new story with no BS of development delays. 7 has a LOT of baggage with it...no way they can please everyone, there is going to be something, different for each player, that will be hated. Old school versus new players. Etc. You're saying there is no way they can mess up that story but I disagree and it might not be their fault. I'm not sure FF7's story can pass muster in the modern era. 7's story is...ACTUALLY...not that good. It's just that many of the things they tried had never been done before. So that's why I'm looking to the next true numbered game. To me that will be the final proof, they can't blame it on development delays and they can't blame it on the remake legacy.

    "Huh... ten years in the making... Noct wakes up ten years later... I wonder if that was symbolic?"

    I didn't even think about that lol