Brady Appeal

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Jon, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    So today is d-day in the NFL for their Tom Brady appeal.

    Now I don't want this to degenerate into a Patriots cheat blah blah blah...

    I'd like an honest discussion how you all think this may fully turn out.

    It's my personal opinion that Brady should not have even been suspended. I've come to that of my own accord after listening to moths of rhetoric from both sides. I think the Wells Report (which I am sad to admit I read in full) is so badly inaccurate. There is no proof that the footballs were even physically deflated, let alone that Brady had any knowledge of the situation. The text messages between McNally and Jastremski cannot be ignored, but also do not prove anything beyond two guys talking shadily. I'm not one of those Patriot fanboi types that think they are totally free from blame here, however, I also don't think anything here warranted a $1 million fine, 2 draft picks and the quarterback being suspended 4 games. If anything, a $50,000 team fine would suffice for the evidence they have.

    Something else about this story that's been sticking in my craw... A local sports radio talk show host (and there are a lot of you in this area, like me, so you may have at least heard of him), Michael Felger, has been harping that if the Patriots just copped to the deflating (because he's convinced they did, and he's too stubborn to hear otherwise), then this would have just all gone away and nothing more than a fine and maybe a late round draft pick would be the penalty. Every time I hear him say this, I want to reach through my radio and punch him, because it's so inaccurate. My feeling is that if they copped to deflating (whether they actually did or not), they would have given the league the "smoking gun" that they lack to have fully dropped the hammer. Part of the reason the penalties were so harsh was, as they said, that the Patriots are repeat offenders. They have no proof the Patriots did anything wrong, and if they admitted they did, then I think the penalties would have been MORE severe, not less.

    Anyway, in the end, what I think WILL happen and what SHOULD happen, are completely different. What SHOULD happen is that Goodell admits he and his office are incompetent, that they buggered this investigation and overreacted to false reports leaked by members of HIS own office. He should apologize, say they are going to investigate their own office for poor morality statutes and tell Tom Brady his suspension has been fully lifted and all prejudice removed. He should also step down and admit he is not capable of handling things as commissioner because too many situations have been bungled under his watch. Of course, they can dress it up to not make him look SO incompetent.

    What I think WILL happen is that Goodell will continue to wield the enormous power afforded to him. Remove two games from Brady's suspension citing overreaction to not having enough evidence against Brady and state the two games remaining are due to not cooperating with the league. He will also paint Brady into a corner and attempt to make this ruling contingent on Brady not going further to court. I believe Brady will then back down and not pursue further (even though I think he should, if this is in fact what happens).

    *WHEW* What do you all think?
     
  2. shortkut

    shortkut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    i think you are a patriot's fan
     
  3. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    Guilty. But I'm neither a bandwagon nor a blind one. So I have that going for me.
     
  4. Alu

    Alu Alu sucks Super Moderator Premium Member

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    So are many people around here.

    The AEI report shows that the science behind the Wells report is terrible and that it shouldn't be trusted. The most important line of it is "the data found in the Wells report cannot be repeated" and anyone with a science background should know what that means.

    That being said, I don't think it matters in terms of what will happen here. Goodell will do whatever the hell he wants. He paid $5 million for a report and is going to use the results found in that report, no matter what anyone else has to say about it.

    Will he reduce the suspension? Possibly. But I'm only really saying that because it tends to be the norm over the years - give a higher than anticipated suspension so that you can reduce it to what was anticipated and claim you gave some leeway thanks to the appeal process.
     
  5. shortkut

    shortkut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    i know, but i don't care what happens with this appeal so I had nothing else to think from his post
     
  6. Alu

    Alu Alu sucks Super Moderator Premium Member

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    Which is fair.

    As a lifelong Patriots fan: I obviously would love for the suspension to be dropped entirely. I'm almost expecting it to drop to 2 games, and if it stays at 4, well shit...oh well. At the same time, getting either the 2 or 4 games to take a look at Jimmy G. kind of excites me. If he could be the heir to Brady, I want to see what he's made of. He didn't have the swagger of Rodgers when he was drafted, but he's got some of it going for him now.

    I'm comparing that to Rodgers because Rodgers was drafted in 2005 but didn't replace Favre until 2008, so a full 3 years on the bench. Could that be a good timeline for Brady to get replaced? Maybe. If Belichick has shown us anything, it's that he doesn't care what you've done for the team in the past if there's a potential better solution moving forward.
     
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  7. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    I think if Belichick has shown us anything, it is that he has no problem cutting or changing players on a whim.

    I think that Goodell is absolutely going to reduce it to 2. That's the frustrating part. The NFL has been over-penalizing players EXPECTING appeals. Appeals should be a rarity, as they are in other sports, not a forgone conclusion like in the NFL. It seems as if 90% of players appeal suspensions. That alone should be a warning that you're doing it wrong. Especially like this, where it is pretty hard to argue that the science in the Wells Report is not just flawed, but inadmissably so... Other than the fact that there is no way to reliable prove the FOOTBALLS WERE EVEN DEFLATED TO BEGIN WITH. Which is what it's all about, isn't it? All 16 tested footballs were well inside the acceptable range given the weather, and that includes the 4 Colt balls. The suspension based on "cheating" or being generally aware of something... Needs to be dropped.

    As for the portion of the suspension based on non-compliance... well sorry, but there is wild inconsistencies IN THE SAME CASE to a point where that portion should be dropped as well. What I mean is that all the phones handed to Wells in his investigation were Patriot team cell phones. A fact most people are either neglecting or missing. Wells asked for two players' personal cell phones: Tom Brady and Stephen Gostkowski. Tom Brady, as we know, was suspended for 4 games in part because he did not hand over the cell phone. No one would randomly hand over their personal cell phone without a subpoena. There was no other non-compliance he got cited for, that I'm aware of. Gostkowski, on the other hand, also refused to turn over his personal cell phone and didn't receive so much a fine for that. You can't claim integrity of the game when you don't even dole the same punishment for the same crime in the same case when no other evidence is present.

    These are logical things, however, that we know the NFL is not (logical). The suspension will not be dropped. I heard a good interview question yesterday:

    "Would you be more surprised if the suspension stayed at 4 games, or dropped to 0?"

    What do you guys think? I'd be far more surprised if it was dropped to zero. I'm actually at the point where I'm expecting it to stay at four.
     
  8. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

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    All I know is that I changed the station when this subject comes on. The problem is that there is really nothing else to talk about right now since the Sox blow.

    At least Toucher and Rich move away from it often. Felger and Maz, not so much.
     
  9. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    I love Toucher and Rich. Some of the shit they say is hilarious. I like Felger and Mazz, but they are so opinionated and don't have any semblance of open mindedness between them. Beetle and Zolak are homers. They are ok. Adam Jones is ok as well, I miss DA.

    But 98.5 is head and shoulders better than WEEI. Dennis and Callahan are a joke, Merloni, Fauria and Benz are boring. Dale and Holley are the only ones I can stand listening to over there. On occasion I'll listen to the pot-riddled weirdo that is Mike Adams.
     
  10. Northern Lights

    Northern Lights Perfection '11 Moderator Premium Member

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    Honestly, it was a very harsh punishment, but I hate people using "the Pats dominated that game" as a reason for it being reduced. The balls were deflated BEFORE the game in order to gain an advantage. The fact that the advantage wasn't necessary is irrelevant.
     
  11. Alu

    Alu Alu sucks Super Moderator Premium Member

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    I think the more common thing is "the Pats did better after the balls were re-inflated" rather than just dominating the game. Which is true..the Pats did better in the second half.
     
  12. shortkut

    shortkut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    assuming they knowingly deflated the balls, this would not be a valid excuse. "i tried to cheat, but because I did better when forced to play by the rules, my attempt to cheat shouldn't count against me"
     
  13. Alu

    Alu Alu sucks Super Moderator Premium Member

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    Not saying otherwise, just saying what the more common stance on it was.
     
  14. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    The thing is, they were not deflated below 12.5 PSI as the science suggests because of the standard gas law. The issue is that referees often inflate them to 15 or 16 PSI because they are dinks. I think the whole deflate thing was deflating back to 12.5.

    I'm going to re-respond to this later. Have a meeting to run to and can't get my full thought out at the moment!
     
  15. Alu

    Alu Alu sucks Super Moderator Premium Member

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    It's against the rules to modify the balls in any way after the officials are done with them. It wouldn't matter if the officials raised them to 13 and then the Pats lowered it back to 12.5, it would still be against the rules despite being a legally inflated ball.
     
  16. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    Ok, now that I have some time to respond properly.

    That was going to be my mention, that it's improper to deflate them after the referees do their thing, period. But, the thing is, the referees were inflating them ABOVE the legal limits, something teams complained about, but was never regulated. Basically, the most logical thing that happened was that Brady asked to make sure the referees did not put the balls over 13.5 PSI (which is what he and Peyton Manning got the league to agree to. If I spent a week making the footballs just right, I wouldn't want them screwing it up and over inflating them either. Doesn't make it right, but it's also not "cheating" in my eyes. And in theory, the referees were not doing their job either. Which is a problem.

    I'm not saying what the Patriots did was remotely right, but it was not nearly as heinous as everyone is making it to be. It should have been a fine, nothing more. Christ, San Diego got in trouble for COVERING THE FOOTBALLS WITH STICKUM! All they got was a $50,000 fine, and they destroyed the evidence. There is no rhyme or reason behind any of this.
     
  17. shortkut

    shortkut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    i have not heard one thing about the refs inflating the balls above the limit.


    Teams should not have any say in the football. In baseball or basketball you don't get to break in the ball before the game. The refs should have the balls kept at 13.0 PSI and that should be standard throughout the league
     
  18. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    All the time teams say the footballs are over inflated. It just doesn't make national headlines because IT'S ONLY AIR IN A FREAKIN FOOTBALL. Saying it out loud makes me giggle every time because of how silly this whole thing became. More and more players and refs have made mention since this fiasco started that "it's just how it was done."

    I agree about your standard though, but it's not what the league agreed to. They agreed to allow teams to do what they want to the footballs and keep it between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. So then, is it truly fine that refs often don't measure the footballs at all, or do the "squeeze test" and say, "it feels a bit low" then inflate it to ridiculous amounts? Again, it doesn't excuse what the Patriots allegedly did, but the league doesn't take ownership for their part in this mess either.
     
  19. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

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    NFL upholds the 4 game suspension. Time to go to court and hear about this all season!

    *Shoves head in oven while over-cooking pasta on stove-top*
     
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  20. dimmerwit

    dimmerwit Tremendously High Energy Member Premium Member

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    Brady's already given the go ahead to take it to Federal Court, to the surprise of nobody.
     
  21. Northern Lights

    Northern Lights Perfection '11 Moderator Premium Member

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    Surprised by this. Was sure it would be reduced.
     
  22. shortkut

    shortkut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    he "always" destroys his phone when he gets a new one... except he didn't destroy the phone prior to the one requested by the NFL and he decided to get a new one after he knew the NFL wanted to see it?

    Had he just said he liked the balls under-inflated this would be over already and people would forget about it by week 6. Now that he has done this, he is like a-rod trying to buy and destroy evidence so he wouldn't get caught. It makes him look significantly worse than admitting it would have
     
  23. Alu

    Alu Alu sucks Super Moderator Premium Member

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    I'm not in the least bit surprised. In fact I spelled my stance out pretty nicely about a month ago.
    Destroying the phone is weird as hell. I haven't seen the bit about him saying he always destroys the phone though, got a link?
     
  24. shortkut

    shortkut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    i read it on my phone, but if i remember correctly, it was in his lawyer's statement that he always has his phone + SIM card destroyed when he gets a new one (another article said it was done annually). I'll try to find the links
     
  25. shortkut

    shortkut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    @Alu : not the article i read, but good enough:
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...e-smashes-his-cell-phone-every-8-months-or-so

     
  26. Alu

    Alu Alu sucks Super Moderator Premium Member

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    Yeah that's a bit weird. I mean I guess it would make sense if he did it to all of them, but the timing of it and the fact that he didn't destroy the one before it are screwy.

    Were there any new and awesome phones that came out around then as a reason for buying a new phone so quickly or do you think he'll just go by the "I can afford a new phone whenever I want and I wanted a different one" reasoning?
     
  27. shortkut

    shortkut idea man Moderator Premium Member

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    even if the phone of the future came out that day, he knew prior to destroying the phone that the NFL wanted to see it. He didn't even tell them it was destroyed for another 4 months. He deliberately destroyed the phone to prevent them from seeing it and deliberately tried to cover up that fact, and even now is trying to pretend it is not unusual.
     
  28. Alu

    Alu Alu sucks Super Moderator Premium Member

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    Oh I know all that, I'm just trying to see where they'll go with it in court.

    I tried to look it up but I couldn't find any actual release dates (because I gave up pretty quick). Seems like potentially the Galaxy S6 and S6 Edge were supposed to come out in early March this year. Potentially the HTC One M9.

    Not going to bother verifying since it really doesn't matter, especially because I doubt we even know what kind of phone he has and there's almost 0 chance it would have times out so nicely like that.
     
  29. Jon

    Jon Official Thread Killer Premium Member

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    Brady released a facebook post this morning airing his side of the story, finally.

    I know it appears homerish, but I believe Brady. He's not given me any reason to doubt this, which Goodell and the NFL have on numerous occasions lied to save face. Assuming that Brady is being honest and he made the NFL aware he was destroying the phone AFTER having handed over everything they were looking for (and let's face it, an athlete/celebrity destroying an old phone is normal), then Goodell just looks idiotic. The fact that Brady has authorized this to go to court almost proves his statement accurate. If for nothing more than the first thing that the NFL will do is subpoena the phone records from the carrier. If there was anything damning, Brady wouldn't have said he did that already and authorized the legal proceedings.

    NFL is going to look VERY bad by the end of this, I think. A woman beater getting the same punishment as someone who may have been possibly aware that something was generally going on? This is not going to be pretty. Either Brady got 4 games for withholding evidence (which he is claiming he didn't) and the NFL has NEVER suspended anyone for failure to cooperate, or he is suspended for generally being aware of possible wrongdoing, which has also never had a player suspended for. I have a feeling that not only will Brady serve no games, but if his statement is proven correct and the NFL has the texts and stuff, Goodell is going to be forced to step down (probably by the owners, if not by his own doing) because this becomes a witch hunt.
     
  30. The Eye in the Sky!

    The Eye in the Sky! That guy eating pie Moderator Premium Member

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    Bob Kraft comes out with the flame thrower today.

    God this story is never going to go away.